Christian: Hi, Lee - fantastic to have you here!  #00:00:27-7#

Lee: Good morning!  #00:00:29-7#

Michael: Hello Lee, pleasure to meet you! Bonjourno, Christiano!  #00:00:34-0#

Christian: Yea, it's still in the middle of the day for us and it's early in the morning for Lee on the Bahamas. Thanks for joining us so early. So, Lee Prosenjak, who are you and what do you do?  #00:00:47-1#

Lee: What a great question! And I don't have a perfect answer, which is, I think, fun. And appropriate for me, so that's part of the joy that is my life. I'm an artist! And I spend my days creating that art so that everyone that I hopefully come into contact with can discover their own inspiration, love and greatness.  #00:01:11-7#

Christian: And how do you create art? So, you're an entrepreneur as well, so what's that connection?  #00:01:22-1#

Lee: Yeah, that's right. Yeah, there are so many roads that opens for me. So, my wife and I own a dance studio located in Denver, Colorado, the United States, and that's a wonderful thing. And we inspire a bunch of classes in ballet, tap and jazz and hip hop, little kids through adults and that's super-duper fun. And I spend quite a bit of my time here in the Bahamas now. We are investors in a great hotel here which is wonderful. And we're located on just the greatest beach in the entire world, which is a very bold statement and I feel like we back it up all the time which is good too. And I spend a lot of days inspiring other entrepreneurs, other business leaders by being a CEO coach and creating a bunch of learning. I do some workshops and key notes for my friend Simon Sinek. I do just all sorts of, you know, all sorts of great things and no two days ever look alike for me, which is perfect and by design. So, that that way I never get sort of bored of the repetition or anything like that, because at any given moment there's something fun, there's something exciting on my desk of things to do. And hopefully that looks like I'm not standing at my desk very much that I'm out doing something and walking around or talking to different people. And that's really cool. So that's me, yeah.  #00:02:53-3#

Michael: So, if I heard you correctly, or if I misunderstood you correctly, you're on the Bahamas for a lifetime of holidays.  #00:03:00-4#

Lee: I feel like that's the case, yeah. And I just happen to sprinkle some work in there as needed.  #00:03:07-8#

Michael: Speaking of which: So, I take it that the work you're doing might be partly on the Bahamas and partly not. So, when you hear what this podcast is all about, the words "Remote Leadership", what does it mean to you?  #00:03:24-6#

Lee: So good, because that's basically what I do, yeah. You know, it started a lot during (...) Well, before pandemic happened. Even our general manager at our dance studio came to us and said "Oh my gosh, I think I have to move and I've got to move back home to be around family", which was out of Denver and back to the east coast of the United States. And she said, you know, "I'm just feeling so horrible that I'm going to leave you" and all that sort of thing. And i said: "Well, here's the deal: You can move but that doesn't mean that our relationship is done, right? Like you can still keep working with us, because I need you. Like I need you to be part of this team" and she said "I don't think, you understand. Like I'm moving across the country and I'm not going to be here" and I'm like "I know", but you know with something that's been traditionally a very hands-on like "No, I need you there and in the office" and that sort of thing, even something as tactile as a dance class. Like I said "Now, we can figure this out. Because not only do I want to figure that out for you, but I want to figure that out for me too, so that I can go and travel and be anywhere and my wife and I can have this time together and that sort of thing and not feel like we have to be in the office all day every day", and sort of change that desk. So, remote leadership, I'm like "Yes, please, I'm in. Let's make sure that we can create that together, so that that way all of us have that freedom in order to make that be a reality for everyone."  #00:05:08-2#

Christian: Can I dive into that a little deeper? Because a dance studio is as offline as it could be.  #00:05:17-4#

Lee: That's right.  #00:05:17-9#

Christian: I had this with my coffee bars, they were offline. You have to be there and people come into the studio/into the coffee bar. So, what jobs could you create to be done online or remotely?  #00:05:33-4#

Lee: Well, I mean, it's so easy to see some of those things like the accounting and the, you know, all like (...) So, we've had a remote bookkeeper and accountant for years, and that's just been the way that we sort of operate. Like we've got the central place that everyone's going for the same files and all that sort of stuff and how to collaborate online together. So, even with pandemic, it created some innovation with us, which we always talked about "Oh, maybe we should have some remote classes" or "Maybe we should have videos on demand" and stuff like that. And all of a sudden, we're like "Oh, we have to do that". So, it gave us another line of business quite honestly because it was something that now all of the sudden it wasn't just our classes weren't geographically based. So, we started to get old students that had moved away, were coming back to us and saying, like "Hey we want to still take class", and I'm like "Great, we can do it online now." And the same thing with, you know, we had new students that came to us from across the world because they could take class online. And so it was definitely a needed thing for the time of pandemic but it opened up a lot of different avenues for us to continue on with that. So, classes are online now and in-person, more in-person than online, but at least we have that. We've got some video-on-demand; so that we can continue to do that. And that all happened. I sent out all the video stuff to my friend who lives in Los Angeles and said "I need your help. I need going through all these videos", so like that happens online, without ever being in the same place. Our dance recitals which, of course, are traditionally in-person and things. Well, we had dancers in-person, but we stream that broadcast to everybody. So, all the family and friends from around the world were tuning in to watch the dance performances and now they're recorded and archived. And so there's lots of functions with even that as such a in-person type business.  #00:07:47-4#

Michael: Can I ask you a detail about the mechanics of remote online dancing?  #00:07:52-4#

Lee: Sure!  #00:07:52-6#

Michael: So, I mean like yoga classes we've had for a while online. We go online and you're on your mat and I do my yoga class, so that works. I'm just curious how that works. So, if there's a couple dancing or even one person dancing through the room. How did you solve the challenge of following with the camera or having a bigger room to capture? Because resolution on these cameras is not as high yet, I take it, so you can zoom in and out and do stuff like that. How did you deal with that? I'm curious.  #00:08:20-2#

Lee: Yeah, well, I mean using the regular technology that kind of solve those problems. So, I put in big screens into the dance studios that instructor can see someone on a (...) It's not quite life size right, but at least you can zoom in. You can see what that looks like and putting in good cameras, so that people can see, that it's not just using the camera that comes with your laptop or I mean that sort of thing. Like "Let's use bigger, better cameras so that it's a good experience". And it's also been fun and we deal with a lot young kids and adults that are dancing and dancing from home and things too. So, their space is equally tough to sort of set up and make sure that they can be seen on camera, that they have enough room to (...) You know, you're not going to take out the coffee table if you're trying to jump across the floor or something like that right? It's been fun because we get to see sort of into your home. And now, you know, like when your dog decides that it's time to dance too, that's pretty fun.  (unv. bei  #00:09:27-5#) gets into the action. So it actually introduced a lot of siblings and things like that to dance class, too because a lot of times you are sitting there in the background, and all of a sudden you notice that there's two or three kids dancing on screen instead of just one. So, it's pretty neat.  #00:09:43-6#

Michael: It's amazing how the world has moved. I mean, Christian and I were in the business where, just a year and a half ago, people thought that leadership development, education of managers and team leads was not possible to do online in a classroom-like scenario. And you had to travel somewhere and be in a group and have physical contact and all of that, which of course is wonderful. And one and a half years down the road with the pandemic, now it all is working and some of it is working better than before to be honest. What were some experiences that you have made and you can share with all of us here? What has been working really well for you that a year and a half ago maybe you didn't even know of? What's the cool stuff in remote?  #00:10:25-8#

Lee: Well, it's been through all the leadership coaching and things like that I do, whether that's groups or individuals. Before pandemic, I was jumping on an airplane almost every night to go to the next city, to do the next thing, to be at the next event. And that essentially went away over night. Now I took that pandemic to make that be the case, but all of a sudden it forced our hand to go to virtual. Because there wasn't another option. And now I like it so much that why go back to that old way, right? I can be in the Hamas here and just go for a beach walk in between my sessions and hang out at the pool and stuff like that. That seems like more fun than being trapped in an airport and trying to figure out because my flight got canceled and how to jump into the next Uber or any of that sort of stuff. Yea, like, I'm. So and using again a mixture of that in-person and remote things, it's pretty awesome. So when I'm getting together with a group I say "Cool, you've got a big screen in your office and you're going to meet together in-person? Put me up on the big screen." I can be larger than in life all of a sudden. You can see my hair in great detail, right? I'm using the 4K camera, I've got the extra microphones. Like I'm creating the conditions in order for that to happen. And again, a year and half ago I would have said "No way" and "None of my customers would have accepted that, they would have been like 'Are you crazy? You have to be here with us.'" And I've had a couple of customers and repeat customers and things that say "No, no, we want you in the room" and then I describe the mechanics of it and I'm like "Cool, so you're going to pay me to now fly across the world, to go to this thing, it's going to be a red-eye flight for me. And then I get up and it's a pain, you're meeting two hours away from the airport, now you got to drive from there to there. And what's going to happen is we're going to talk for half an hour and then I'm going to say 'Cool, let's do some exercise', and then I'm going make it go walk away for 20 minutes and what am I going to do? I'm going to be sitting here, I'm not really, but checking my email, right? Like for a lack of a better term, I've got downtime. I can't work with every breakout group all the same time so I'm choosing or are roaming in-between those rooms of things. So, I'm not working with everybody at the exact same moment. So, isn't it better if you just come back to the camera if you need something and ask the question there?" (unv.)  #00:13:05-2#

Michael: Maybe you have a piece of advice for me. I'm in exactly the same situation. I used to be traveling all the time, meeting clients, having workshops, doing coachings. Now I've seen the magic of how remote collaboration can work and I can Christian smiling because we do this together all the time. And it just clicks, it's faster, it's more efficient and I dare say the results are better too actually. And now: How do I tell my clients who now start to ask me again to come in-person that remote is better and works better? Any advice? How do I convince them?  #00:13:39-5#

Christian: Or any experience?  #00:13:42-3#

Michael: This was a lead on question.  #00:13:44-3#

Lee: That's right, that's right. Yeah, Christian knows me, that I don't give advice, so there you go.  #00:13:48-7#

Michael: Yes, exactly.  #00:13:49-6#

Lee: That's the bottom line. I'll share my experience, but you know (unv.) well.  #00:13:54-1#

Michael: Nice catch!  #00:13:55-2#

Lee: Yea, thanks. Like I've been trained in that one too for. For me, what I've been doing is really kind of talk into the client and saying "Hey, let's talk about the logistics of this. Then let's talk about the price tag. Because you seemed to be paying for the travel and all that sort of stuff and let's look at the hours that we could increase how much time I'm spending with you compared to having this be something that it's not." And usually just kind of looking at that value proposition is enough for them to go "Okay, you're in." And what's funny is that for a long time people would try to negotiate my fee and I try to be very flat about my pricing, I'm like "Ah, now I'm trying to give somebody a better deal than the other day. This is kind of what this costs. You know there's no room to kind of wiggle in there or anything like that. That's not really fair to anybody else either if I give you a better deal than tomorrow's client or anything like that" and so. But people always seem to try to negotiate my fee, but the travel part, they're like "Oh, it's just the travel", and I'm like "Why are you trying to nickel-and-dime me for 50 bucks or something like that? But you're okay with spending $1000 on a plane ticket?" or something like that. You know, that just didn't seem right either ever in my mind that that could be the case. And so the idea that we can just eliminate that whole line item from your budget. Like seems better. (unv.)  #00:15:32-8#

Michael: So pay less and get more time, nice. And less hassle. Yeah, cool, thank you.  #00:15:37-8#

Christian: I would to like to go back to the leading yourself part of the story you told me. Because you said pre pandemic you already thought about what you can do to lead remotely. And so what was your journey in changing yourself and changing the beliefs you have about yourself and your life that led you to the life you're living now? So you're living part-time holiday in the Bahamas, sometimes you go to Denver, the other time you are around in the world. So how did you change that and what would it help?  #00:16:17-8#

Lee: You know, it was a conversation I have with another entrepreneur years ago. And we were talking and they were in a weird situation where they had sold their home and it sold very quickly and then they couldn't buy another house. And there was a whole list of reasons why. They had something lined up and that fell through. And then they were going to go for another thing and that fell through and they ended up living in an Airbnb for a couple of months and they kept switching Airbnbs that they were living in like every month or six weeks or something like that. And they said "How cool is this? That we get to experience a different part of the city, and there's these restaurants that we didn't know about before because now they're in the neighborhood", and I thought "That's really kind of neat." And I started do the math and I look at my wife and I said "Do you realize it costs like $235 a night to live in our house between a mortgage and the electricity and the gardener all that stuff. We could live really well at a hotel for $250 a night. Like that seems like a reasonable thing". And she said "Yeah, I don't want to live in a hotel" and I said "Yeah, but you kind of get the point. We could be anywhere. And why are we tied to this one location necessarily?" And so that sort of started this journey for me to say: "Okay, cool, what can I do that isn't necessarily possible today?" or "Why not create this vacation lifestyle that I've always wanted to live?" So yeah, I can be here, I can be anywhere, I can figure out where I want to go next. And it's a choice basically, each and every day. And that led to some pretty cool trips that my wife and I took together and one day this was - I'll tell you - it was December 14th, because it was about 36 hours before my birthday, which is December 16th. And my wife said: "What do you want to do for your birthday? Where do you want to go for dinner?", which would our, you know, sort of traditional thing, of course and I said "I'd like to have a dinner date with you and I'd like that to be on an international flight" and she goes "Where are we going?" and I said "I don't know. Let's find whatever we can find as the cheapest plane ticket that gets us somewhere where we can have, you know (...)" And my requirement is from traveling all this miles and stuff, that my requirement is I have to be able to pay an economy ticket and use some upgrades to get up to first class. And she goes "Alright, I'm in!". And so we left like 36 hours later. The cheapest flight that I knew I could use upgrades on was going to Bangkok. And so we jumped on a plane to Thailand and we had zero reservations. But we knew that we needed to be back for the dance studio open again, three weeks later. And so we went with no reservations anywhere other than a one way plane ticket to Asia. And so off we went. And every day, we looked at each other and said "What do you want to do tomorrow?"  #00:19:23-7#

Michael: Fantastic!  #00:19:25-1#

Lee: And sure enough, we hopped off flight, we were in Cambodia shortly. We spent a couple of nights in a couple of different cities there. We went to an island because we have an obsession with beaches. So, I mean, every day was just kind of a different adventure. And that's, again, that's what I like. I don't want two days to kind of look the same. That's just the reality that I want to create.  #00:19:52-7#

Michael: I want to go to the air port now. I'm going to go home, get my wife and off. Thank you for the inspiration. Awesome!  #00:20:00-0#

Lee: You're welcome, you're welcome!  #00:20:00-6#

Christian: Yeah, it sounds like you go with the flow. Not only on this vacation in Asia but every day. So, how do you decide you "have" to go to Denver? Still, you have a business there.  #00:20:20-5#

Lee: We have a business there. So it is definitely a home base sort of thing. But earlier this year during pandemic here, we sold our house that we have lived in for 19 years, got rid of all stuff that was in the basement, which was a lot of stuff actually and moved to an apartment which, you know (...) My wife was like "Oh my gosh! I don't know. Can we do this? Can we downsize this? Can we get this done?" and I'm like "I don't know". And when we basically moved to the Bahamas which was at the beginning of the pandemic, because if I have to do this remote stuff, I've got a steady internet connection: Why not be here than anywhere else? "Okay." And we had a condo here, so why not be here? And so sure enough like I came, we brought our very old senior dog, who's now retired and living his best life ever in the Bahamas here. But he requires a lot of care. And so one of us has to be here with the dog at all times. So, my wife, I mean she's the one that packed up the entire house and moved to an apartment. And actually, I've never been in the apartment because I've been here with the dog. And then she comes here and I have traveled a couple of times for work this year. But I've never actually been to our apartment. And that's pretty cool.  #00:21:49-4#

Michael: Speaking of work, by the way (...)  #00:21:55-5#

Lee: Yeah, we haven't talked about that, yeah, right?  #00:21:56-9#

Michael: No, not really.  #00:21:58-8#

Christian: We don't talk about work here, we talk about remote leadership.  #00:22:01-9#

Lee: There it is, aha.  #00:22:03-7#

Michael: So, I mean, you work with a lot of companies right?  #00:22:07-3#

Lee: Yeah, yeah.  #00:22:08-1#

Michael: So you have probably seen a lot of stuff happening over the past year and a half and all the years before and then the chance that came with the external changes in the world. Out of what you have observed with the people you have worked with: What were things that companies were struggling with and solved in terms of remote leadership and how to deal with that? That could be useful for people listening in now who might still be in the situation and want to get out of that. So what can you share from what you have observed with your clients?  #00:22:41-2#

Lee: You're right, I've had the honor of being able to see inside a lot of different companies. And that's been going on for years, which is pretty cool. The biggest thing that I think that i can say is that less communication never solved an issue.  #00:23:02-3#

Michael: That was negative language. So turn that around for me, please.  #00:23:07-0#

Lee: Right? The reality is that we've got to talk, we've got to communicate, we've got to communicate more and it's very easy to jump on to a Zoom call or Slack has that already integrated into it and stuff. And you know, here we are messaging back and forth like 100 times and I just hit the video chat button, be like "Alright, let's talk about this for three and a half minutes and it's going to save us a whole bunch of chats back and forth. Let's just get on a call, get on a video call and talk about this real quick." And I think building that connection between us, between the team members is key to do that. And it's something that I think that's the commodity these days that it's replacing all the perks that we used to have with the office. Because all of a sudden I'm not worried about 12 different types of coffee in the break room, I'm not worried about "Oh, does this office have napping pods or a beer pong table?" or any of that sort of stuff. That doesn't scream culture. And that was a nice thing to have and that probably helped to create that culture. But the reality is today: It's about the humans that are on the other end and who I'm working with and where I choose to spend my time and what the purpose of that is. And you know, I've really enjoyed being able to hang out with my senior dog all the time and have him around, and he's looking at me right now like "What are you doing? Why are you up so early? What's going on?" And I think that that's the new form of (...) These are the perks that we can enjoy. So I having a remote environment or a mainly remote environment.  #00:25:03-6#

Michael: Yeah, "culture" being a key word I heard in there multiple times. What can I do to create a culture in the company or evolve the culture that is there or was there to continue succeeding in a remote world? What are key elements that the culture needs to evolve and be prepared and ready and empower the different ways of working today?  #00:25:30-1#

Lee: Yeah, I really think the communication and connection are the two biggest keys to that, right? So, we're continuing to talk, continuing to have the conversations. And even before pandemic with the dance studio team, like we had Zoom meetings, so that we could tie everybody in. I wasn't trying to call somebody in at a time that they weren't scheduled to teach or things like that. We can record the session so at the very least people can watch it. Are they really watching it? I don't know. But I'd throw a code word in at the end of a live Zoom call and say "Okay, I just make sure that you were watching today. If you're watching the recording, I need everybody to put a picture of a koala in Slack" and all of a sudden you get a bunch of pictures of koala bears in the Slack, and I'm like "Oh cool, at least somebody made it to the end of the meeting" or something like that. Hopefully was on double time instead of just single time, so they were able to end there properly, doing some other housework in the middle of all that sort of stuff. But making sure that I'm still getting the message across that we're still talking, that they're still (...) Like just even more communication than maybe ever before. Because there's a lot more access and Slack and Teams and all that sort of stuff. Whatever the platform is, the idea is that we're communicating more and still hearing the same messages from that leadership: "Okay, here's where we're going, here's what we want to do and here's our normal sort of schedule or frequency of having those check ins, of having those meetings of talking those things", and they can be shorter because we can be more efficient with our time. That's been another good benefit of having the virtual environment when I'm working with customers, and like "Let's go do a breakout room and it's going to close in seven minutes". Not in  (unv. bei  #00:27:20-9#) minutes, you know, from the time you go walk to the wash room and then grab a cup of coffee and then show up in the breakout room to, you know, now talk and you've checked your phone and got your head out of the space. I'm like "No, go to a breakout room for seven minutes and then come back and then that's it", you know, we can really make these things be more efficient the more we do with that.  #00:27:44-5#

Michael: Yeah, thank you.  #00:27:46-2#

Christian: So, that all sounds fantastic. You all have the workarounds to stuff. So where is the real struggle? Is there a struggle or do you think there's something where you just can't lead remotely or is there - don't know the word - something hidden we don't know?  #00:28:08-1#

Lee: I mean, for me personally, yes. There is something. It is missing, it is lacking, is that this is going to be no different: At some point we're going to end this call and we're going to hit "End", "Thanks so much", "Nice to be here with you, thank you", hit "End", and I'm just going to be like looking around like "Uh, what do I do now? Where did my friends go?", and I'm missing kind of that camaraderie. They used to be the "Alright, you guys want to go grab a burger later?", you know that is that. And so I've had to replace that myself with other friends with other things that aren't necessarily work: Taking the dog outside, seeing what the neighbors are doing, right? And thankfully, at this place in the Bahamas, I've got some great neighbors and some great friends. It is a small island, so it's hard not to hang out and to see people on daily basis. I didn't realize that I liked small town living as much as I do and seeing the neighbors. And we went over to somebody else's house last night and it was new and different people that I got to connect with. And so I think that's the hard part for me, is that when I hit the "End"-button for that meeting, it's over. And so I'm missing out on a time (...)  #00:29:32-8#

Michael: Oh, no!  #00:29:33-1#

Lee: Yeah, I know!  #00:29:34-4#

Michael: Not yet! Wait, Wait!  #00:29:35-6#

Lee: Right, wait, not yet. I'm not pushing the red button yet. But the time around the water cooler if you will, that we used to just kind of like hang out and talk a little bit and to build that connection with each other and "How are you kids doing?", "Oh, cool - they got scored a goal in soccer", or there's you know (...) "Oh, that's neat that you got a new car", "Yeah, let's go take a look at it", you know, I'd love to see it. Those are the things that I feel like (...) Either I have to be more intentional, or I've got to replace that. I'm definitely a people person, you probably gather that from me, right? And so, I want people around at all times. And so that's hard when I can just end the meeting and then walk away. So the other hard thing for me has been sort of my time management because for the longest time I'm like "Okay, cool, I got to go to the next city" and I'm in the back of an Uber and I'm like "What were the 100 emails that I got in today? Alright, let me triage those and figure out which ones I have to respond to in the next 15 minutes while I'm driving to the airport" and then I know I got a half an hour when I'm at the airport. And then I've got "So I better make those couple of calls that are there (...)", you know, and I've got to be quick on those calls because I need to get to the next one. And then I'm on the airplane and I've got 90 minutes of unaltered work time that I can just sort of clear my inbox. And when I land, 60 emails are going out. It's a lot, bunch of Slack messages and things like that to the team. My team was always like "Oh, you must have done  (unv. bei  #00:31:14-2#)". Yeah, it's got 112 Slack messages and 60 email that all came into my inbox at once, right? So like that's tough. But then by the time I got to the next hotel, I'm like "Okay, cool, let's relax for the night. I got everything accomplished that I needed to. I still got to make those calls tomorrow, but at least I've got everything kind of in place", and I kind of use that structure to become freedom so that I had that in place and ready to go. And now again, when I log off, I'm like "What should I do? I've got the whole rest of the day" or "I've got all these other things that I can go and do". And so it's been hard for me to prioritize "Alright, no, sit down, work on email for 30 minutes and then go do something else" or "Then move on to the next project" or something. So it's been hard because I don't have kind of those artificial deadlines. Kind of to keep me on task.  #00:32:13-6#

Michael: Hey, before we get to that red button, eventually, I (...)  #00:32:17-9#

Lee: We got (...) Listen, I'll talk all day. You so: "Wow, okay, (...)", I'll talk all day. I got a (...)  #00:32:22-5#

Michael: Yea, we're here, I love it. But you know you're with friends and so you know "Don't go, don't go".  #00:32:26-9#

Lee: Right.  #00:32:27-4#

Michael: Don't go into that loneliness on the Bahamas.  #00:32:30-8#

Lee: That's right.  #00:32:31-1#

Michael: And sunshine and the beach and all of that. Now, I got one question that I have and I start with a complement, which is: You have wonderful, beautiful, light blue eyes.  #00:32:44-3#

Lee: Thanks, I like them.  #00:32:45-7#

Michael: And obviously, you know, the setting that you have is very well lit. So I assume there's technology where you making sure. Because it looks like you're in a TV studio the way it's lit, so professionally done. The question that I have probably is probably technical question: How do you do it? And this is something I will remember out of our conversation because with you I constantly have the feeling that you're looking straight into my eyes and I want to know how you do it. So where is the camera that you do that? I presume, you're still somewhere looking at me. So, what's the trick, Lee?  #00:33:18-0#

Lee: Yeah, technology has really helped in this. And at the beginning of the pandemic, I said to my wife "Hey, I'm going to need a new desk" and she was like "Listen, how long is this going to go? Like you've got a desk in your office at home. You've never used the office home" and I said, "I think we're going to be here for a minute anyway, we better invest in some technology. I got a stand up desk, so I'm able to stand up and sit down which I really enjoy. I got a great camera, it's a 4K camera and the key to that is a very good lens on it. So I've got a great lens which allows it to be  (unv.)  #00:33:54-0#

Michael: Is the camera close to you or is it from afar on zoom?  #00:33:56-9#

Lee: It's pretty close to me, it's - what we have here - about 4 feet away, just the focus, depth, you know. So, it's arm reach away.  (unv.)  #00:34:05-5#

Michael: So, that's what I'm doing  (unv. bei  #00:34:06-4#) but still. I have all that, but I'm still not looking straight into your eyes, I think.  #00:34:13-6#

Lee: Right? Yeah!  #00:34:14-6#

Michael: What's missing?  #00:34:15-8#

Lee: I've got a teleprompter, too, so that that way I can look at the camera, but that's where your picture is. And I've been very conscious to stare into the lens of this camera for a year and a half. So my relationship is with my camera lens.  #00:34:35-0#

Michael: So you have a teleprompter in front where you see our image?  #00:34:38-3#

Lee: Yes.  #00:34:38-9#

Michael: Okay, that explains it.  #00:34:40-4#

Lee: So that way, I can  (unv. bei  #00:34:40-9#) it, right. Yeah, I've got the good lighting, I've got the external microphone, I got a video mixer board, I can go to different things, draw on my whiteboard using my iPad and my apple pencil and write. Like so that's I can draw in it, I can make myself go picture in picture. So, as the client right, like I'm really harnessing technology and I hope that that doesn't detract from anything that we're doing. I want it to be so seamless that you don't even realize it. I've got external controls and I'm a big fan of these big buttons, so I use an Elgato stream deck. Hopefully, they'll send me more product because of that. I've got a video mixer board that external made by Blackmagic Design. That's all external. I can change my camera views, I can do all that sort of stuff. And hopefully that's a seamless thing for you and it feels as natural as in if we are in the room together and I don't have to break that eye contact in order for that to happen, right? So, you know, if I'm running my PowerPoint, I run it off that stream back and I can change what slides up.  #00:35:51-9#

Michael: Yeah. Yeah, cool. Thank you for sharing this. So teleprompter is the solution, I'll get mine out of the back.  #00:36:00-5#

Lee: Regardless, if not, just stare into the camera lens right? Like so, I know that, you know, you're also on my screen, that's a little bit lower than my camera 2, but that's, yeah, it's that relationship with the camera lens.  #00:36:13-1#

Michael: Awesome, thanks. The second question that I have is - so I got to tell you where the question is coming from. So, Christian and I do a lot of workshops. And we do a lot of workshops about purpose, vision, values, strategies, and all of that, and purpose, of course, being at the core of everything. And of course, they know I love the book and you mentioned earlier, you work with the Simon Sinek, right?  #00:36:32-6#

Lee: Yes.  #00:36:33-5#

Michael: And he obviously wrote the famous book "Always Start with Why", and so we have been having this thing where in our workshops we talk about "Wow, we would love to meet Simon one day and tell him that we have one minor suggestion for modification", and that is that to call the book or the whole thing start with "Where for". So, if you could pass on the message, please, that'll be awesome. Because I've (unv.)  #00:37:01-4#

Lee: Tell me more about that. What does that mean? What's the (...)?  #00:37:04-7#

Michael: Well, it comes from, you know, so we do these things in German. And we're quite lucky in the German, I think. In that sense we're lucky for a change, otherwise I really love the English language, especially for business and for all the leadership catalogue and curriculum. And in the German language, we are fortunate that we have two words for "Why". We have a word that is "Wofür" which I have learned, there is an old English word called "Wherefore", so it's "For what purpose", it literally means "For what purpose do we do this?" And we have the word "Warum", which is probably the closer translation to "Why", because it asks "Why is it the way it is?" So to me, the conclusion has been in German that "Why" is a bit more backwards-looking, while "Wherefore" is forwards-looking, more in the coaching mindset projecting forward where is this taking us. So, that's something that I've been wanting to pass on as a message. So, not sure where we take it from here (unv.)  #00:38:03-3#

Lee: Well, you know, his books have been translated into many different languages, so, you know, maybe that's the better translation, who knows?  #00:38:15-9#

Michael: Yeah, so this is what we  (unv. bei  #00:38:18-7#)  #00:38:18-5#

Lee: I'll send him (unv.)  #00:38:18-8#

Michael: So we did this. So we cross out the "Why" and put the word "Wherefore" next to it.  #00:38:24-3#

Lee: Perfect! Good.  #00:38:26-4#

Michael: Is that an English word? I mean, does anybody ever say "Wherefore" except for lawyers, I heard?  #00:38:31-1#

Lee: Yeah, lawyers, that's very lawyer speak for, you know (...) I don't think, I've ever said that word in my life, unless I was trying to pontificate and feel very big around (unv.)  #00:38:45-3#

Michael: "Pontificate", I'll remember that word, oh, beautiful!  #00:38:47-9#

Lee: Yeah, yeah, which is not me. That is not me. I'm very much the "What you see is what you get". And one time I was about to work a session with a corporate client and they said "Could you send us a different head shot?", and I said "Why?", and they said "Because", you know, like "you kind of got to", like "your look", it was a really tough conversation, I can tell, you know, "But your look is a little (...) It's different. You kind of got like spiky hair and I think you're wearing like a t-shirt".  #00:39:21-5#

Michael: Oh, they needed something less you, yeah?  #00:39:23-3#

Lee: Yeah, and I said "You still realize that you get me in the room, right? That's not that's not changing. Like do you need me to comb my hair a different way to do the session?" and they said "Well, maybe, it might be helpful", and I said "I don't think I'm the right person for this job".  #00:39:41-9#

Michael: Yeah, maybe someone else with different hair. Or less hair.  #00:39:46-5#

Lee: Right.  #00:39:46-5#

Christian: So, talking about the "Wherefore" and the "Why": So, this podcast is about remote leadership. And Lee, if we could arrange for all the leaders in the world to listen to the next few verses and sentences you say, what would you love to make sure all of them could hear?  #00:40:09-8#

Lee: Oh my gosh, no pressure, right? Like that's (unv.)  #00:40:13-6#

Michael: Just saving the world, that's all.  #00:40:15-6#

Lee: Yeah, yeah, I mean, just solve the world, it'll be good. You know, it can be done in one sentence, of course. I just hope that people walk away from this feeling that the sort of the inspiration, the love and greatness that's included in each and every one of us and help each other kind of get to an even better spot. Together, we can achieve so much more than we can solo. So, where are the places that we can help each other do some more better things? Whatever that looks like and that such a loose term sort of thing. But I really think that collaboration is key for all of us. So, how can we collaborate together and do something that's awesome and create some cool art in the process?  #00:41:04-5#

Michael: Ah, art, I'll remember that, nice.  #00:41:08-0#

Christian: Thank you very much, Lee. Thank you very much for joining us early in the morning.  #00:41:11-8#

Lee: Thanks for having me here, amazing!  #00:41:13-9#

Michael: Thank you so much, have a fantastic day, Lee!  #00:41:16-4#

Lee: Thanks, you as well.  #00:41:17-5#

Christian: Thank you, bye!

Christian: [ENDE]